This is most interesting, Timothy from http://www.trumpetcallofgod.com/ and I have been having this most interesting discussion on his prophetic gift and the word of God. Read carefully and let me know your thoughts (this is part 1 of 3).
(SVS) But this (for me) is always a little suspect "The Lord spoke the words in my post, they are not mine. So then, they are to be obeyed and followed, as should His words in the NT be obeyed and followed" (Tim).
There is an equation of what Tim says/writes that puts his stuff on the same level with the Tanakh/gospels/letters. However, within the writings we see this is not quite true. The quotes of Tim are always harkening back to the Tanakh/gospels/letters as authoritative and he isn't elaborating on anything new (but more like a bible study on a topic).
But (for me) I have to raise concern on the issue, should I consider my blog inspired by God? It's most definitely inspired by the interaction with the word of God (as is the writings I see above) and with the living of my faith (experiences). But I do not claim any extra authority on the issue except that I follow Jesus' teachings and elaborate on them. I know Tim you won't agree with me on this but I am just raising the obvious questions which need to be in place.
(Tim) Jason, it is this simple and I will never say otherwise: This blog is not inspired it is the Word of the Lord, literally. I hear the voice of the Lord and write down what He says. Period...thats it...no discussion, no debate. It is like dictation, He dictates I write, unless I indicate otherwise in the Letter or post.
So then, should you test what I have written down according to the scriptures? Yes, I have helped with this, Biblically, in my "Discernment of True and False Prophets" blog. Is the Word I am sharing with you the Word of the Lord from His mouth? Yes. Is it equal to the Bible most definitely!..same Author. Rather the issue is not with me, (I know Who speaks to me and that what He says is True) the issue lies with those to whom I share God's words, in the receiving...to believe or believe not. I have delivered the message as the Lord had commanded me.
How do you digest this discussion - let me know? Feel like adding another book to your bible?
(SVS) But this (for me) is always a little suspect "The Lord spoke the words in my post, they are not mine. So then, they are to be obeyed and followed, as should His words in the NT be obeyed and followed" (Tim).
There is an equation of what Tim says/writes that puts his stuff on the same level with the Tanakh/gospels/letters. However, within the writings we see this is not quite true. The quotes of Tim are always harkening back to the Tanakh/gospels/letters as authoritative and he isn't elaborating on anything new (but more like a bible study on a topic).
But (for me) I have to raise concern on the issue, should I consider my blog inspired by God? It's most definitely inspired by the interaction with the word of God (as is the writings I see above) and with the living of my faith (experiences). But I do not claim any extra authority on the issue except that I follow Jesus' teachings and elaborate on them. I know Tim you won't agree with me on this but I am just raising the obvious questions which need to be in place.
(Tim) Jason, it is this simple and I will never say otherwise: This blog is not inspired it is the Word of the Lord, literally. I hear the voice of the Lord and write down what He says. Period...thats it...no discussion, no debate. It is like dictation, He dictates I write, unless I indicate otherwise in the Letter or post.
So then, should you test what I have written down according to the scriptures? Yes, I have helped with this, Biblically, in my "Discernment of True and False Prophets" blog. Is the Word I am sharing with you the Word of the Lord from His mouth? Yes. Is it equal to the Bible most definitely!..same Author. Rather the issue is not with me, (I know Who speaks to me and that what He says is True) the issue lies with those to whom I share God's words, in the receiving...to believe or believe not. I have delivered the message as the Lord had commanded me.
How do you digest this discussion - let me know? Feel like adding another book to your bible?
10 comments:
I have read some of the writings and I am not impressed. There is a basic structure of calling the lost to God which is good, but there is discernment and interpretation in there that sounds oh so phony. I have seen some of this kind of vision prophecy and it causes one to wonder if there is some truth in there. Then I realize that it does not matter if one can speak mostly truth, if you are truly speaking the word of God then you will not be wrong in a single prophecy. That is why you will get a lot of vague prophecies that can be interpreted in a various ways.
I have been around this sort of thing for 30+ years now and I usually process prophetic words with a few basic questions:
WHO are the words intended for? The audience of such words are not universal but focused to a specific person/group and generally are not meant to be shared past that audience.
WHAT is the heart of the message? Is it consistent with 1Cor14:3 or is it contrary to it? Many modern day prophets tear down rather than build up.
WHEN should the word be given/shared? Timing is an important aspect of any message. Prophetic words should be tested by spiritual people in accordance with 1Cor14:29&32
WHERE is the person coming from? Are they coming from a place of humility or someplace else? Are they correctable in accordance with 2Tim3:16?
To be honest Bob, Timothy is a very cool dude and I think he is extremely nice. But does that life his prophecies into scripture?
Fascinating topic. I like Kansas Bob's sniff test. What he is saying has to be in line with the Scriptures. However, that he claims his revelations have the same authority as Scripture is a red flag at best and irrelevant at worst. If I am rewording a biblical principle, I can say my words come from God (i.e. have the same authority), because I'm just paraphrasing Him. Here's the clincher; any flaw in his writings that clash with the Word, and his writings can be cast away as cultic. A little humility for 3rd Timothy may be in order...
Good to see you posting often, society. I check your site daily.
Blessings.
About "But does that life his prophecies into scripture?"
Here is the sniff test: The WHO of the scripture is a universal one that applies to everyone at everytime ... Timothy's revelations are not universal in focus so they are not on the same par as scripture.
I think that personal revelation supports the scripture and can often fill in the gap with specific applications of the scripture. This type of revelation still needs to be sniff tested -thanks Jim for that term :)
I have issues a public apology on "Layla's Classic Rock" for overlooking The Grateful Dead and a special thanks to you for pointing it out, you and PeterH were the first to ever notice. I feel really bad about. Thanks again for your valuable input.
Layla, you literally rock. But I never pointed out the Grateful Dead - although I admit to being a fan of some of their stuff.
"I think that personal revelation supports the scripture and can often fill in the gap with specific applications of the scripture. This type of revelation still needs to be sniff tested -thanks Jim for that term :)" (Bob)
I like that idea but it then leads to the obvious - are a lot of the blogs I read, which do fill in for specifics, also inspired and on that same level? It was one of the questions I proposed to Tim in this dialogue.
But how far does this sniff test go - Tim has stated his writings are equal to scripture - are you willing to add his works to the books you already have? Is it neccesary?
Jim, thanks for the comment - I am just giving you the comments as they happened and for me they raised some concern...but again I do admit to being skeptic of the prophet office.
Hi society,
The sniff test - If Tim says "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth", you could say that is equal to Scripture, because it is Scripture. However, that does not make them Tim's words. There is no need for more Scriptures and we know they are prohibited. If Tim is serious about writing new Scriptures, I see a red flag (and possibly a blue bus leaving the station:).
Now if Tim says he is being used to explain biblical truths, and they line up with Scripture, then that is fine. His writings can be used to teach others. Otherwise, saying your writing has equal authority only works if you are Jesus Christ.
Vaya con dios.
Hey SocietyVs...I posted a comment on Trent's site (i.e. tithing) concerning Bro. Tim, and I have the same reservations about his words as you do. For him to tell me that I MUST obey what 'he says' the Lord is telling him is extremely suspect since I have the same Father and He is capable of speaking to me directly through His Spirit. And for him to say that his letters could be added to the Bible is silly, IMHO. We are NOT to add or take away from God's Word, and if he truly believed that he wouldn't be saying such things. God's Word ***in the Bible** is the FINAL authority by which we live--period, end of story. We can quote, rephrase, elaborate and teach word-for-word the scriptures to edify the saints and bring nonbelievers to accept Christ--but this business about his writings being infallable and equal to the Bible is pure poppycock.
When he questions you about your commitment to Christ and how your blog doesn't seem to glorify the Lord or questions how you don't shout God's glory as *he* thinks you should, that shows more of a judgemental, holier-than-thou, prideful type of attitude than anything he's written that I've read. God knows we are individuals and that we will express Jesus in different ways; just because we don't speak in NKJV prose doesn't mean that we're glorifying Christ any less than Tim is. A person's commitment to Jesus is between that person and Jesus, and I (or Tim) stand in no place to judge how strong or viable that commitment is. This reminds me in a way of John 21:20-23, where Peter was asking Jesus about John. Jesus had just asked Peter if he loved Him three times in the verses immediately before. Peter makes up for the three betrayals by telling Him he loved Him three times. After that, Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep and also revealed to him the type of death he'd die to glorify Him (v15-19). After all that, Peter then wanted to get into John's business, asking Jesus, "well, what about him?" You know what Jesus said? In essence it was like, "what business is that of yours? *You* follow me!". Here's the verses I'm talking about:
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John 21:20-23
20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
22 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
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I guess I was put-off by the arrogance of tone he used to question your love of the Lord and to exalt the importance of his 'letters', hence my reply here. I may be totally overreacting to all this, as I'm prone to doing from time to time--and if it proves that I am, I will be quick to apologize to all...
That's my rant for the day...
Grace & Peace to ya!
Ambree C. :)
Thanks Ambree for the comment and I did read your response on Gracehead - concerning this same thing.
I have the same reservations that you do about some of what he is saying since I also follow Jesus - but again I think Tim is raising the age old question about additions to scripture. I am not sure I am for that idea but I am for the elaboration easc of us recieves and maybe writing a book about it - which he has seem to done on his website. I am all for that - and maybe he is being prophetic - of this I am also suspect - but I am reserving judgement on that because 'I am not sure'.
But your comments are good food for thought and I appreciate your opinion in this matter - it will also get me thinking a little more deeply about this issue. Thanks.
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