Thursday, October 18, 2007

Forgiveness - Publicity Gone Bad

I thought about the problems Trent and I have had over the past day or so - and I realized that I was partly to blame for escalating the whole thing - and I want to be honest about it.

I am not sure I gave Trent any way out to 'save face' and I seemed to rub his critcisms in his face - and for that Trent - I am sorry - I didn't need to do that and I went too far in some of the things I said (usually with my sarcasm).

Secondly, I made a personal issue between Trent and I public - and for that I am also sorry Trent. We had an issue with one another and I decided to bring it to the public (and asked you to bring it public) - and for that I accept my responsibility - I was wrong and I have taken the post down.

Lastly, I don't want to incite people to 'choose a side' here and I think that is what I caused some of you to do - and for that I am sorry also Trent. To be perfectly honest, everyone was judging Trent on the basis of one convo - that isn't fair - and that was my fault (since it was on my blog and shouldn't have been).

In the end, I am laying down the 'arms' - and moving on - no actual reason for ill will.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

Jason,

I am truly honored to know one of the few real men in the world today. This takes real courage.

Pam

Steve said...

I judge Trent based on what I have read on his entire blog.... not this incident.

It's BS and he is the chief spouter of it.

And I stand by what I wrote earlier about him, but out of respect for you and the direction you would like to go... I won't repeat it.

Hang tough.

DagoodS said...

SocietyVs, a good gesture. Your stock soars on this.

Jim Jordan said...

Excellent confession and action, society. It's good to let the ill will go. Whenever I have gotten upset with someone, it always seemed to hurt me more than them anyway. Good decision, brother.

dorsey said...

I'm with Steve on this one. I can't even try to take seriously a guy who has thrown in with a "prophet" who claims that everything he writes is the very word of God.

SocietyVs said...

Yeah Dorse and Steve, I guess I have my concerns with the whole thing happening at Gracehead - and maybe that is why I run into some opposition over there (but I think asking questions is essential - and why not - that's part of the seeking process).

Jim Jordan said...

claims that everything he writes is the very word of God.

Dorsey has a point. I wandered over there and was reading something with (Jesus Speaking) as the header. Although it lined up with Scripture in a kind of rigid way it was a blogger speaking. It wasn't a copy and paste from Bible Gateway. Not even Paul said "This is Jesus Over and Out". Scary.

I'd still try not to get angry with them (not worth it). better to just dust of your sandals and move on. Hmmm, who said that?

Steve said...

Looks like I have been warned as well Jason...

I didn't want you to be all alone on the path to hell.

:-)

Personally I will wear it as a badge of honor.

SocietyVs said...
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SocietyVs said...

'No more treated like aliens, no were not gonna take it' (Kiss - I Love it Loud). Thanks Steve - I guess that's a very kind gesture of yours - I appreciate it!

Recovering said...

Who in hell is this Trent guy and where is his blog? I'm missing it...

SocietyVs said...

Recovering - it's Gracehead - but I suggest you go and read their stuff before you do anything - not based on anything we are saying - that wouldn't be too fair.

dorsey said...

Specifically, it's the "prophet," Timothy over there. He has his own website, too, with all his writings. These are "conversations" with God that he claims are equal to and as authoritative as scripture. Everything he writes is in a pseudo-New King James' language, too. The guy's a whack-job.

Timothy's website: http://www.trumpetcallofgod.com/

Anonymous said...

Jesus was accused of having a demon and in His day, that was equivelent to being called a whach job.

If you think Timothy is mentally handicapped, then why is he so threatening to you? Even if he were mentally handicapped, does that mean he should not be allowd to speak the things the God says to him? Would that preclude him of having anything to conrtibute?

Maybe it would be better to focus upon his contribution rather than on who he is. If he is calling himself a prophet to garner attention, then this would defeat that purpose. If he is not then you might get a blessing where you did not expect to find one. You might even become a blessing by looking for the good in one who is and outcast.

This is an opportunity to practice the faith spoken of here, acceptance. Is this a real and living principle or is it just something to bag on the church for not having and an excuse to form a new club? Are any of us without sin? Are any of us what we claim to be? Are we genuinly searching for substance or just a new form that is more pleasing to our personal tastes?

Pam

Steve said...

Pretty defensive there Pam.

Who's buying the Kool-Aid for you guys?

dorsey said...

Pam, I can't decide whether you're trying to bait me by misrepresenting my response, but let me clarify. I don't say he has a demon, nor do I say he's mentally handicapped. I DO say that anyone who claims that his every word is a special revelation from God Almighty (and that anyone who disagrees with him faces God's judgement) is either a deceiver or is just plain crazy. Do you see the difference? As for the comparison to Jesus, when Timothy turns water into wine, give me a call. Better yet, send me a bottle.

You also suggested that I'm threatened by him. I don't see where you get that. All I said was that I don't take him (or his dupes) seriously. I believe Jesus loves him, but he's irrelevant to me, except for the degree to which his bullshit causes aggravation to my friend.

You again misrepresent my stance when you suggest that I practice the faith of acceptance. Not sure where you get that, either. Tolerance, maybe, but there's a big difference.

I went to GraceHead's CafePress site looking for a "Jesus loves militant homosexuals" or a "Jesus loves pedophiles" t-shirt. Apparently, Jesus has changed his mind.

Anonymous said...

Dorsey,

My comment was intended as general. I'm only challenging people to think a little differently.

My point was that either you believe what Jesus says about Himself and Who He says He is,or you have to believe he was crazy.

If you read the old Prophets, they all sound as if they have the same voice, there's a reason for that. It isn't their voice. If someone truly is called as a prophet, who should they sound like? I don't think any of those men were incredibly likeable either. Most psychiatrists will tell you that Ezekial was probably schitzophrenic and that bipolar persons in a manic state have a tendency to prophesy. Maybe psychiatrist are wrong or maybe they are right and God used these men to speak for Him and warn His children to change their ways and turn to Him. If He can cause rocks to cry out, why can't he use persons who society shuns? Isn't that one aspect of Jesus, that of lifting the down trodden? That of using the simple to confound the wicked?----I'm not saying that Timothy is mentally ill either but as another poster said, there really is nothing unbiblical about what he says. It is what he claims to be gifted as that is upsetting. It was upsetting to me also. God showed me that I was looking for my familiar forms and that I was missing out on a blessing.

We're not drinking kool-aide, we're not building compounds, we don't give our money to Timothy, we don't worship him, or look to him for answers before we look to God, and I always check everything he says according to the Jesus I know personally and the Bible. What can I say, he's different from anyone I've ever known but he checks out. He's just a believer that is gifted differently than other believrs I've known. It isn't an unscriptural gift. It is just one that has been silenced by Christian religion since about the third century.

Today's popular form of tolerance has become highly untolerant. I don't know you well enough to know if you walk what you talk. Most of us don't even when we really try.

Jesus still loves militant homosexuals enough so to shed His own blood to cover their sin, wanting to impart His Life to them and free them from their sin. Just like He loves us all. I don't know about the T-shirts. Trent has a lot on his plate right now in 3D. Maybe they didn't do well enough to sell, I really don't know.

Trent and I have both grown and changed over the last few years. There would be something amiss if we didn't. We tangle over things sometimes too but we still find unity in Jesus and we are both still in love with Him and God has blessed us recently with a few other diverse individuals that we also find unity with in Christ.

I'm not trying to sell anything. I just can't listen to all the guessing and surmising without trying to give a true picture of where we are at Gracehead. We're at the place God has put each of us.

As far as all the misunderstanding, it isn't my battle. I'm just hoping and praying for the best to come out of it.

Nuff said.

Pam

dorsey said...

For the record, I believe Jesus. But then, he had more to offer than words.

Best of luck.

SocietyVs said...

Pam - I still respect you - but I am having a tougher time with both Timothy and Trent due to this fiasco of being 'called a person with no faith system' and then Timothy saying Jesus judges me to the point of 'exclusion' (and Steve apparently). How is the even a representation of the faith we all belong to? That's the part that's troubling for me.

I only responded to your comment because I feel like you guys over there don't know me that well - and when I put it down - you understood - but what happened next? Timothy deleted over 70 comments from me and others and then came out quickly to judge my faith - even after I had wrote from the heart. That was also troubling on some sense. Top that off, I come out and apologize and remove the post about Trent - and nothing comes of that? How is any of this really following what Jesus actually taught us (forgiveness, mercy, and love)? So yeah - I guess I do have questions - and for good reason it seems.

I think Timothy felt sleighted by us because we ask questions - and sometimes not in the best of tones (but then again writing is hard to decipher a tone). But that should mean God has it out for anyone - I mean that betrays the very things I know about God. Also I was accurate to mention what a prophet does - according to the Tanakh - or at least what I see those prophets doing - and it was usually to a whole nation of people and not single individuals (ex: Jeremiah). I think the odd time it is - but when it is the example is someone of importance (like a king) - not someone like me or Steve (not that were not important - but we sure don't rule countries or whole denominations). So I have some concern there as to what a prophet actually does.

I don't think they what's happening at Gracehead is bad - in fact it has to be good - look at Emily and the encouragment she finds in it. But why can't we all discuss our faith without having to play some power game of who is right and who is wrong? For me that is who it has been for sometime now with Gracehead - yet I do enjoy blogging with you guys/girls. But I seem to be 'not welcome' now because I am not in the inner circle - and I guess I have to wrestle with that. Still I like you guys/girls over there.

Steve said...

So I find it interesting that ALL of the comments I ever made over at Gracehead have been removed... as well as Jason's.

Isn't that interesting Pam? Don't you at all find that the least bit alarming? Do you question this at all? Fine if they found my questions as too harsh, but Jason's?? You must be shaking your head at this... at least I hope you are.

You seem like a good soul and I think if we met each other we'd get along. I feel that way about most of the people I meet in the blogworld. My concern (and its not a threat) as I poked around on Gracehead are the claims that are being made to speak for God... and to me anyone that does that is suspect, even if the words they speak line up with the Bible. It's extraneous.

Then you see exclusion and an inner circle being formed where only the select few are welcome or those that agree are gathered. That's troubling. It's troubling to me b/c I see that it is a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of control and manipulation of people. You are right, as long as people line it up with the Word of God they should be fine, but people are lazy. And I know, spiritual leaders take advantage of lazy people and begin to accept everything they say and do as God's word... and this happens in and out of the church every single week.

Believe it or not Pam, I haven't done the challenging and writing and confronting b/c I like to be abused either or that I like making people mad... I actually do care. And if you've felt personally attacked by anything I have said previously I do apologize...it wasn't my intent.

Anonymous said...

Guys,

All I can say is that I have no other control and I don't want any. It's not my blog, I just contribute there. I think times are changing and the forms that we are all used to are passing away. I also think that the world is going to become a deadly serious place.

Anyway, lots of things that ALL of us do disturb me. The big one on my mind today is that they are starting to pass out condoms and birth control to 11 year olds in public schools. And what the heck are we concerned about? Someone who says he's a prophet and we don't like his demenor? What's wrong with us? Maybe we shoud just shut up and listen to those wrathful warnings. Maybe we should wake up before the frog is fully cooked. Our society is decadent and sick. It makes me feel wrathful and I'm not holy. How else could God feel about the things we do?

Anyway, it has been a long week. And Steve, don't worry about it.

Akkk! Akkkk! Mars Atack!!!;-}

Pam

Yael said...

One more reason why I'll never be a Christian....

I see people as basically good and I see potential for improvements in the world around me. Every generation thinks theirs is going to hell in a hand basket, yet life continues on and not in a downward spiral either. We like to glamorize the past and think kids never had sex or were abused until this present day. There is nothing new under the sun, these things have been happening down through the ages. Life in the past was certainly much worse with slavery, child labor, wage slaves, exploitation and oppression of women, blatant racism, robber barons, the list goes on and on. We still have many problems in society, but to claim things are getting worse than before? I don't think so!

Personally, I'm not bothered in the least that kids are given condoms. I spend a lot of time with kids, I'm raising two of them myself. These kids aren't just mindless robots. Just because things are available to them does not mean they're grabbing them to be used. Give our kids some credit, too. Besides, I'd rather have condoms out there for kids who need them, than see kids having kids.

And Pam, I have to say, you're just as bad as the next person for going off on things that don't matter. Jason is talking constantly about trying to get people focused on fixing problems in society, things like taking care of kids so they're not out there grabbing those condoms you're so worried about. Yet is your question to him what you can do to help him? No. I saw your posts over on Gracehead. You were asking him if he'd really met Jesus or not. Your first concern isn't for making the world a better place, your concern is does Jason's theology line up with what you think it should be.

Wrathful warnings? Good grief. Here we go again. That mean old God beating up people who are trying to make the world better. Why doesn't God go beat up on some drug dealers and pedophiles and leave people like Jason alone? Maybe that prophet should get a different god to speak for, the one he's using right now seems to be missing the real concerns, too!

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Jason,

Would you do me a favor and censore me? Please, remove my last post. I think I'm just sore from the whole contest and not making much sense anymore. I'm tired of trying to be mediator. See ya,kid.

Pam

Yael said...

Pam,
No problem me hitting a nerve. You've hit plenty of mine, too. I think you have it all backwards and you live in a nostalgia for what never was. Those good old days you speak of were when 6 million of my people were butchered in the Shoah, while millions of others perished in the wars of Europe and Asia, when millions of people around the country lived under colonizing powers, when blacks lived with segregation and worse, when women were still treated as nothing but ornaments on men's arms rather than as people with minds of our own, were not good old days. Maybe you, as a nice white child could play happily and safely in your back yard next to the Cleaver's house, but life wasn't so great for a whole lot of other people. And don't act like kids weren't having sex back then. Remember all those nice isolated little places for bad girls to live in secret for awhile until their 'problems' were taken care of? Whose head is in the sand is all a matter of perspective.

You are ever ready to defend your prophet pal by pointing to how persecuted he is, yet when I mentioned the persecution of my people you brushed it aside with the comment that persecution doesn't mean anything.

When anyone presses you about anything, you pull out the harmless old woman card and pretend to be peacemaker. As soon as you're off the hook you go right back to the same old thing. You're good at this, very good, but the rest of us aren't stupid either.

Always the doom and gloom, never any real action. People's actions matter. I couldn't care less if your heart is as pure as they come if you don't do anything besides bug other people about their hearts. That was the whole point of the real prophets. Keep your doggone sacrifices and your meaningless prayers, get out in the world and do something to make things better! Beating people up with your god doesn't help anything.

SocietyVs said...

Pam, I have respected your wishes as requested (as my elders taught me - to respect my elders). I think Yael can speak to you on that level - but I am not allowed - respect is what is requsted of me - and I will oblige. Pam, your heart is always good with me - no matter what - I would fight battles for you if need be (ever).

As for you Yael, I respect all the things you say also - and you have enlightened me so much - I need thank you on a daily basis. I need you around - you are the words of the Tanakh alive - and I need to learn also from you. I read Jewish texts in ignorance - and you shine the light most of the times - so where can thanks really find an ending? I will be your brother til the day I expire from this earth. You never need worry of me doing to your bad - I may raise questions - but I will never pain you.

Og my ignorance I am well aware - I pay tribute to those with more life than I have had.

Yael said...

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your post.

Of course my posts aren't written in a very nice manner, but that is the whole point! Isn't this exactly the way 'the prophet' speaks to people? And yet no one he's speaking to is supposed to be bothered by his tone? Because he says he's speaking for God? Who says God speaks like that? One tone of voice from all of Tanakh is taken as the only voice of God? Should we do that also with Jesus?

I could be wrong but 'the prophet' sounds mighty human to me!

As far as Pam goes, she didn't seem to get why anyone was bothered by 'the prophet' but she sure got her back up in a hurry and stomped off when I spoke to her the same as he speaks. Perhaps she will have more empathy for his victims in the future?

I figured I could do what you could not. I'm just a blinded, lost Jew so who cares? I'm not expected to be anything much anyway. No point in exceeding those expectations...

Life is good. Judaism has a teaching: Be concerned about the well-bing of your own soul and the well-being of your neighbors body, not the reverse. I like it; it's tough to live by. It was more fun playing at being a prophet. Maybe I could be a Jewish one. No point. We never listen to prophets you know. ;>)

You're tops in my book of Christians, Jason. For what it's worth I consider you a true Tzadik, righteous one, among the gentiles.

Zeke said...

This Timothy cat reminds me of Neal Donald Walsch, only not nearly as interesting to read. They both got started the same way; out of nowhere, they heard the voice of God who told them to start writing and share what they heard.

Helen Schucman reported to have heard a voice in her head--which she believed to be Jesus--say, "This is a course in miracles. Please take notes." Thus began the Course in Miracles.

I could also add the story of Nick Bunick, who has claimed that he discovered, under hypnosis, to be the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul. Or the endless parade of people who are "channelling" this or that spirit, like JZ Knight and Ramtha.

This is nothing new. Timothy just has an evangelical flavor to him.

Anonymous said...

Yael,

My life in my home was never safe. Now most kids homes are like mine was. I know there have been many horrible times in history but there was a time in the U.S., a brief time, when things were pretty good. Not perfect but not like now.

I'll just leave it there. It seems like if I breath, I hit a nerve and it's hard to quit breathing. I like you in spite of that but it is probably best to be from afar.

Jason, thank you for removing that post. Just pray for me, sweetie and be my friend. I'm battle hardened and we all have our own burdens to bear. Life stinks, really stinks at times, but God is good.

Pam

Yael said...

Just a quick note of apology for entering the fray. Christians fighting other Christians? What's it to me? Have at all you want. I need to stay out. I enjoy chatting with you SocietyVS, come by my blog anytime.