Thursday, August 31, 2006

Shout out to the Bloggers!

I have discussed a lot of issues with a lot of bloggers and one thing is certain, a good discussion. I have heard every view in the last few months and many have passed on pieces of knowledge they picked up. I add my 2 cents in and try to figure out where the issue is heading towards. Must say, blogging is in it's own right a great way to get some feedback on your issues. So I decided to make a blog on the issues of the day.

ET: Not 'ET go home' but 'ET go to hell'
This is a never ending debate on the ideals of torment and plainly asks God 'would you?'. I have read many blogs on this issue and the majority vote is 'no God would not'. The scripture argument is that hell either 'doesn't exist' or it is a 'cleansing', but not eternal. I mean the argurment for no ET is quite sound and the argument the other way seems a little...harsh. Some of that is based on 'feelings' and some on interpreting the word 'eternal' in the NT. Nonetheless, the majority of churches across the world interpret ET as exactly that, forever. Is torment forever or is it a type of 'purgatory'? Or is it just on earth that 'hell' applies to? Can there be an effective rep for God on the issue? Shouts out to YBMT (bruced), Steve, Kenneth, Geo, Tom Reindl, Don R, Cliff, Nancy (and the others I missed) & Curious Girl for bringing this to my attention.

War - What is it Good for? Absolutely something!
The issue of war will always be a two-edged sword. On the one hand we hate war, on the other hand we need it for neccesary protection of the world. Christians have taken both sides on the issue and some say 'war is neccesary' while others say 'war is not godly'. Now war will always exist and of that we are sure (a good look at history points that out). But just because it exists does God deem it 'the right thing to do'? Is God on a 'side' in a war? Should we always defend Israel no matter what? What was the biblical stance on such an issue? Shouts out to Demerging, Jimmy Bob, Head First, Unclarity, and others for shedding some light on this issue.

Fundies and liberals, are they eating off the same plate?
Fundamentalism has become a thorn in the side to the liberal religious believer, I mean all that extreme zeal just rubs them the wrong way. Fundies have their share of crimes (abortion clinic shootings, gay-bashing, war in the name of God, etc) and the liberals aren't smiling. The problem is they read the same book. So fundies grab this interpretation while the liberals are grabbing another, who is right? Are the liberals 'selectively' choosing what they believe? Are the fundies 'adding in' something they want to believe? Who is interpreting the scriptures right? Is religion the problem here or is it the books we base our faith on? Shout out to Edge of Faith for asking the questions many of us never confront.

Religion and Politics: Our Intelligence shows they like to sleep together.
The clash between religion and politics is as old as religion itself. Israel was founded on a 'theocracy' and Islam claims the same ideal. Christianity is not exempt and hasn't been since Constantine put a cross on his shield and went to war in 300 AD. It's an age-old argument that states God is part of the political structure whether we like it or not. Politics is a man-made system that bases a majority of it's ethical virtues on scripture. Does politics have a place for faith within it's realm? If so, is politics and nationalism based on that faith directly? Which defines which, politics define religion or vice-versa? Are they really one in the same? What does your scriptures say about politics? Shout out to ninja-nun for raising the issue.

Religion vs. Faith - Is the baby really bathing in that bath water or just drowning?
This is the ultimate battle of religious structures vs. religious ideals, they aren't matching up. Some are calling for an 'end of religion' while others seem to think the church must endure and stay the same. Religion seems to put some emphasis on religious duties while faith is asking 'who made that duties list and why?'. Religion seems to be saying 'if you are not with us, why not, get with us and be saved'. Faith says 'no church has the true salvific plan'. Does faith run contrary to religion, are these two different things we speak of? Is religion becoming too 'trapping and exclusive' to the detriment of others? Is faith becoming too loose and free that it denys biblical ideals? Who will win, faith or religion? Also, will the son of man find 'faith' on the earth when he returns? (a 2 point question). Big-up's to End of Religion, Ironic Observances, Stupid Church People, and the hoardes of others that share on this issue daily.

Salvation - a pro-choice debate on the sanctity of life everlasting.
Will all go to heaven or will only 'some' go to heaven? If only some go to heaven then we have free will and a choice to make to accept Christ. If all go to heaven then Jesus' death on the cross was for everyone and God made that choice for us. Both sides use the same scriptures and developed varying ideas on eternal life. There is proof for both arguments concerning free-will, the cross, our sinful nature, and God's intervention. Does the scriptures prove we have no free-will? Does Jesus' death signify a 'once for everyone' salvific act? Is sin wiped clean because of the act or do you have to choose to accept that salvific act to become clean? And the age old question, was Adam really that fond of apples? Big shouts out to YBMT (Bruced), Kenneth, Steve, Geo, Nancy da Joo, and the hoardes of others that brought this to my attention.

So those are the issues of day in the blog-a-sphere. I would also like to commend Chris Ledgerwood for his insight (a great friend), Jolly-Beggar (the reason I love blogging), and everyone that makes blogging fun by adding in their 2 me food for thought so I never go hungry. Also the religious-right for their tender support of me on every issue I support of theirs and their utter condemnation of me when I don't support them. Let's learn to like one another, please.


chris said...

Dude, it seems you are always trying to find some common ground with everyone, and I admire you for that. You are a true peacemaker, and I believe you are a man after God's own heart as well. But the fact is as long as people aren't willing to let go of their religion then we will never find true peace. And by religion I mean all forms from Christianity to to judaism and even atheism. I guess in the long run it only matters what you believe doesn't it. Because the journey of faith is a personal one that only the weary traveler and his creator can undertake.

Jim Jordan said...

Here are some good discussion points.

ET (End Times?) Is torment forever? Doesn't it depend on the folks who are tormenting themselves and each other? Remember, God's wrath is revealed when He lets wicked people have their own way. (Romans 1:24) Hell is a place where everyone who rejects God can go to have their own way.

War - Depends. When God wants an enemy nation defeated, He'll have them attack us (Example: the Canaanite kings and Moses). I think He would say Afghanistan yes, Iraq no.

Fundies and liberals - The problem with "fundies" is that they believe their interpretations to be inerrant. They throw the word "inerrancy" around and they think it's talking about them. Not! However, the abortion clinic shootings even being mentioned are overblown. The Abortion Shooters' Club would fill up a table at Denny's (there are more chupacabras in the world).

Abortion is murder - you can be sure God hates it, and the worst "gay-bashing" is when one man gives another man AIDS. I do not kill a gay man by telling him he won't get laid in heaven.

Religion and Politics - "Theocracy?" - literally God rules from the seat of government. Not! Iran is a mullah-cracy (aka thug-ocracy) but if a devout Christian becomes Prez here, we still have a Dem-ocracy named for dem people who voted for him/her. If you study the history of Israel, you'll see there was a separation of institutional religion (priesthood) and the king. One of the kings tried to make sacrifices himself in the temple and was given leprosy as a punishment.

Christ gives us discernment and hope that can guide our politics (like standing against the killing of babies) but we must keep in mind that power corrupts. When the church sleeps with the state, the church gets STDs. BTW, the real church (the body of Jesus Christ) does NOT like to sleep with the state.

Religion vs. Faith - Your idea of what religion is and what faith is are ambiguous here. It almost sounds like a straw man vs. a straw man argument (i.e. neither is accurate).

Salvation - So, if Jesus' death doesn't have to be recognized, what a bummer Jesus, eh? Why didn't Jesus just wait a few "days" and send an e-mail? All He would have to do is send an email saying "I LUV U - BTW, U R SAVED" - please forward this to 10 friends you know (if you want to, of course - if not, my bad!).

But what if no one forwards this email to you? Do you go to Hell then?

Good fun.

SocietyVs said...

I have no ill will to a any man or woman, we can disagree or agree to disagree or merely agree altogether...I just can't find a reason to hate over interpretation...that's just me and I like the discussion over issues.

I agree with the 'losing of our religion' and I think more faiths need to determine faith in God or faith in the church, mosque, or synagogue. I think faith is a personal thing also that cannot be determined by the mass power of religion, since it makes 'human = limited' mistakes.

Chris I enjoy your comments and thought I'd give you a big shout out since you were very honest and shared of your personal life, guess I really enjoyed that. You inspired me, like many others, and I always think that is worthy of praise.

chris said...

Thanks, buddy! if you get a chance shoot me an email. the link is on my about me page on my blog.

BruceD said...

Why do people who don't believe God's love is big enough to embrace His entire creation, always seem to sound so angry? Where does all that venom and bitterness come from? I really don't understand. Is being correct more important than loving others?

SocietyVs said...

Bruced you rock and you have an excellent point! I framed my question in a way to respect all the ideas I have heard of late, for discussion reasons alone. But I agree with the anger part, why can't we just realize God's love for us and focus there (for the majority of our ideas). What's so good about being correct is like asking 'what's so civil about war?'. Shout out to Brucie, whenever I think your name I think of Hilarious House of Frightenstein (the frankenstein that never worked was named Brucie).

Jim Jordan said...

Bruce said Why do people who don't believe God's love is big enough to embrace His entire creation,

Who said God's love isn't big enough to embrace His entire creation? The question is are we capable of trusting in His love (those of us who even recognize it)and reflecting that image of love to others?

... always seem to sound so angry?

Say what? I was laughing as I wrote that post! Why do you think I ended it with "Good fun"?

Where does all that venom and bitterness come from?

Assuming again you're talking about me, you seem to equate discernment with venom and bitterness.

Is being correct more important than loving others?

Correction of others is often a sign of love.
Jesus "said" the Beatitudes to a large crowd, He "told" the Pharisees and Saducees to their faces that they were corrupt. Do you think Christ wants us (those who seek Him and follow Him) to be mute while millions of babies are being killed through abortion and our country prepares for war after war?

We ARE exhorting each other to be better disciples of Christ, aren't we? There seems to be something suspicious about Christians who hide under their desks and cry "meanie" whenever other Christians exhort them to clarify their position.

So, Bruce, don't be upset. My response was measured, rational, and biblical (even if it was tongue-in-cheek). I found something that appeared misguided in each presupposition and thought I would be remiss if I didn't give feedback on it. When societyvs thinks I am over-looking something, I hope he would take the time to tell me (and he has). That's a good thing.
God bless.

SocietyVs said...

Jim I agree. I guess what you wrote can be taken as 'a little mean' if your stuff is not read or you are not discussed with...however I am on your blog quite a bit and enjoy the reflections you bring to issues. I may not always agree but I like to discuss the issues anyways. Doesn't mean we can't be brothers, which is why the post even exists in the first place. I'll give you a 'shout out' too since you do make me think about a lot of issues on your post and I am glad you get me to think.

jollybeggar said...

hey man- just read this
(i know- i'm a little behind...)

thanks for the kind word.