tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post8986762769800662424..comments2023-08-10T02:07:41.140-06:00Comments on Losing My Religion: Alliance Doctrinal Statement - A CritiqueSocietyVshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-22751937771776052912007-08-08T11:52:00.000-06:002007-08-08T11:52:00.000-06:00Great comments guys and girls - Ledge you rock!Great comments guys and girls - Ledge you rock!SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-15764728241210739222007-08-08T10:56:00.000-06:002007-08-08T10:56:00.000-06:00Hi Heather,I always think of heresy as 'hear say',...Hi Heather,<BR/><BR/>I always think of heresy as 'hear say', just ideas and probably many of my own. I'm an old bird and I'm not strubbling at understanding too much of the Bible these days but I still struggle at bringing myself into submission to God and just loving people as I should. It is better when I don't struggle to do it and just let Jesus in me love them and Christ has been formed in me by a confluence of all that I've leanred in scripture and experienced in my life but either without Him is meaninless. I guess, without Him, I could do whatever I liked with scripture and it would matter but because of Him, I somehow find myself growing into them. I may begin by trying to fit them to my understanding but I end up being fitted to them.<BR/><BR/>I still question though, and God is patient in showing me the answers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-18646187031898825902007-08-08T10:10:00.000-06:002007-08-08T10:10:00.000-06:00**Check the 11 points - is believing them going to...**Check the 11 points - is believing them going to make you a better person? No. **<BR/><BR/>Gregory Boyd recently wrote a book where he said that heretics are those with the "wrong beliefs" and it's interesting that no one ever calls a Christian a heretic because the Christian loved too little. And yet that should be the worse kind of heresy, because part of following Jesus, however one defines Jesus, is loving as he loves. And that's a lot harder than holding to any sort of belief system. <BR/><BR/>I guess my biggest problem with any sort of creeds laid out is that they tell, they don't show. All of those on the list aren't really something you can see action. There are people who upon meeting them I knew they were Christians because of their actions (and there were others who were just really good people). And I've meet people who would hold to this list exactly, and yet be as non-Christlike as possible. <BR/><BR/>**The portion of the unrepentant and unbelieving is existence forever in conscious torment;(19) and that of the believer, in everlasting joy and bliss**<BR/><BR/>My biggest problem with this statement is that it reduces Christianity to a rewards system: "Believe as we do and you, too, can have everlasting joy and bliss!" It's like handing out party favors, and Christianity should be so much more than that (and is, for a lot of people). <BR/><BR/>**This is the church I am a part of and I totally disagree with the scripture pasting they do to form a centralized belief system (isn't that wrong to do?). **<BR/><BR/>I would disagree with the Bible-pasting as well. Many say that the portions non-Christians have problems with (and even Christians themselves) are because the texts are taken out of context, and make sense as a whole. Yet to form this statement, they pretty much just took one verse out of many. So you can't do it when saying something "bad" but it's perfectly okay when doing something like this. <BR/><BR/>I mean, Romans 3:23 ties back to all the Tanakh that Paul quotes, and yet you'd never get a sense of that here. And those verses are important to the 3:23 statement. Plus, it doesn't say all are born with a sinful nature, it says that all have sinned and fallen short. <BR/><BR/>I could pretty much do that with all the verses. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-62249761051832593172007-08-07T13:19:00.000-06:002007-08-07T13:19:00.000-06:00I don't think we will be a better person unless Ch...I don't think we will be a better person unless Christ is revealed to us and we have a reason to want to be 'better'. There has to be a change in us, a spiritual awakening to God. (I define spiritual death as being dead to God or asleep concerning Him). However, we can become so entwined with our questions that we far remove ourselves from the real world regarding our faith and it can become a kind of virtual world where we find emotional escape but it lacks the kind of rubber meets the road impact that I find to be the reality of Jesus Christ. On the other hand, we can be so comsumed with our own good works that we've no time for the development of our own relationship with God through Christ. Both can become relgion that takes the place of Christ in our life. There is balance in maintaining an apropriate and useful walk with Christ and I'm soooo thankful for the forgiveness I have in Him for all of the times that I stumble at it.<BR/><BR/>Lately, my conviction is...from the ivory tower, I must come down.<BR/><BR/>PamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-58394065667841043382007-08-07T10:44:00.000-06:002007-08-07T10:44:00.000-06:00I think for the biggest most galring weakness of t...I think for the biggest most galring weakness of this Alliance belief structure is it does not make you a better/nicer person at all - not does it really mention a single one of Jesus' teachings (ex: love your neighbor). <BR/><BR/>This belief system - which you have to 'believe' to be an Alliance minister - is all about 'what you believe' as opposed to 'what you do' - which in essenece is a huge fall-away for the gospel teachings. It's the problem Heather points out about Christianity becomes a religion of 'we are as good as we believe' and 'not as we do'. This is a huge problem in the faith and it needs to be given some serious address. I actually think the 11 points of th Alliance say nothing to what they actually 'stand for' - what it does say is what theology they follow (in some senses) but says nothing about their value system. <BR/><BR/>Check the 11 points - is believing them going to make you a better person? No.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-90601068010498178102007-08-07T04:56:00.000-06:002007-08-07T04:56:00.000-06:00You have guts, brother. To question what is basica...You have guts, brother. To question what is basically the accepted doctrine of the Christian church will put you at odds with just about every church out their. oh well, come to think of it Jesus was at odds too.....hmmm....Chris Ledgerwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905022342741427178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19670264.post-2784757105576450382007-08-06T22:09:00.000-06:002007-08-06T22:09:00.000-06:00This is good. If we don't question, how will we ev...This is good. If we don't question, how will we ever know? Besides, anytime we allow the church to step between us and God, then whatever we suffer is not the churches fault but our own. We simply must think about our own relationship with God and come to our own understanding of truth.<BR/><BR/>I'll hit on one point only. For me the statement all God and all man is simply a man who obeys God at all times, the teachings become flesh, so as to be the very instrument of God upon the earth. That man was only Jesus, the Second Adam, the prototype of what I am growing to be in Christ. Idiosyncratic? Maybe, but I know why I believe all that I believe and more than just knowing, I hope it is demonstrated in the way that I live. Living the teachings of Jesus is of more value than knowledge. One of my favorite verses, "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies." None of it does any good if it doesn't incite us to love.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate, more than you probably know, your simple stance on the teachings of Jesus. It edifies me.:0)<BR/><BR/>PamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com